Posts by Cold Steel

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Yes, and you quote Dawkins to prove it.

Sorry, I'd be more impressed if you'd taken the theology course.

Here's a review of Hitchen's work. Many are the same arguments as used by Dawkins.

Daniel C. Peterson
God and Mr. Hitchens

https://youtu.be/slQEE1BAqmA

Richard Dawkins and The Question of Translation

36

Crossing the Elders

by Cold Steel in

few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around kingdom halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds.

it amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

it makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that i'm just hearing about the bad apples?

Cold Steel

Few things draw my interest as much as people on this board who talk about the elders, the insidious little toadies who lurk around Kingdom Halls, the proverbial big fish in little ponds. It amazes me the terror and the veneration they inspire, as well as the occasional ridicule.

It makes me wonder how they're selected and whether most of them come into the position with a sense of power, entitlement, authority and control, or whether many of them are pretty nice people and that I'm just hearing about the bad apples? From what I gather, they can counsel you regarding your personal life, scripture and its application, but that it would be improper to treat them as equals in the congregation. In other words, they can give you counsel on how to dress, groom yourself, the type of after shave to use, what to read, think and so forth, even how to interpret scripture and the articles in the WATCHTOWER, but it would not be proper to give them counsel in the same areas, right?

What happens if you're friends with a guy and he's appointed an elder? Is he ordained? How does your relationship change, if at all? And who do they report to? I've seen the organizational chart and its difficult to figure out. What if you're of the anointed class? Aren't you technically part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave (of which the GB is a part)? In other words, can elders still counsel the anointed class? How does that work?

Finally, do you call these elders "brother" or do you use their title?

28

Let's all play a game! What does this passage of the Bible tell us about Jehovah?

by stuckinarut2 in

lets play a fun game?.

we all know that as witnesses, we were constantly told to read the bible, and ask ourselves what the passage we read reveals about god.. as an example, here is a wt that highlights this.. may 2016 wt study edition "benefit fully from jehovah's provisions".

8 ask questions.

Cold Steel

Tor1500 » Jehovah got rid of you or allowed you to suffer until you came back to him. Self centered, wouldn't you say.

No, I wouldn't. It's one thing to slam the JWs, but the God of Israel was actually compassionate, thoughtful and profound. Most JWs and ex-JWs should take a course in Old Testament theology. Remember that the ancient Hebrews were a covenant people. YHWH never destroyed people without warning them beforehand. And the people of Canaan were some of the worst. I have no problem with God destroying peoples who burned infants alive or took part in decadent sexual practices with the forced prostitution of women.

10

So, you want to become a Jehovah's witness?

by nowwhat? in

ok your bible study wants to get baptised.

make sure he is aware of what's involved.

here is a checklist.

Cold Steel

If we were close to Armageddon in 1975, just think how close we must be in 2017. I'm excited! Now is no time to be taking family vacations, going to college, taking a cushy job or buying a nice home for your wife and kids (you can always move into your neighbors' nice home and plant vegetables and flowers in their spacious yard when Jah slaughters them and their little ones because they didn't take your thoughtful and profound Bible studies. It was their choice).

Now is not the time to waste in self indulgent activities like buying nice clothing, new cars or putting a new roof on your house. Don't buy your wife that nice necklace or your husband that watch they've wanted. Those are worldly. You can take them off the bodies of the worldly before they're burned.

This lack of excitement in today's Society frankly astounds me! WE ARE SO CLOSE...VIRTUALLY RIGHT AROUND THAT PROVERBIAL CORNER. The GB said 1975 should mark the end and now, more than 40 years later, we must be made to understand that the end could happen any moment!

Don't waste your time saving for your future or establishing a pension. What does it say about your shameless lack of faith?

42

Told My Parents Yesterday That I Don't Want to Be a JW

by Saethydd in

i wasn't entirely sure what to expect when i made the decision to tell my parents how i really feel, but i was prepared for the worst, fortunately, it didn't come to that.

after i told them i didn't want to go to the meetings anymore it led to a long talk with them.

they made a number of irksome and woefully uninformed statements but at least they were not aggressive and have said that they won't force me to move out over this, though, i can tell they are hoping they can convince me to "accept the truth," as long as i still live with them.

Cold Steel

It seems your parents are jumping to the conclusion that either the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society -- a publishing company created by man -- is the church of Jesus Christ (Jehovah), or there is no God. The third option, of course, is that Jesus is still the Christ, the Redeemer and Savior of mankind and the Son of the Father, and that your parents just took the wrong path.

Uh...blowing your head off would seem to me not to be the next option. Your parents should be able to explain why a God who has revealed Himself throughout the generations of man, suddenly became the passive player in how He deals with man. If two or more of the Governing Body had heard from God, or if the early Bible Students had visibly seen what was, to everyone else, invisible (and I don't mean seeing with their understanding), they would have had some claim to what they were telling others. But they should explain why a church founded by men, indoctrinated by men and guided by men in today's world should be the same church founded by Christ, who visibly appeared after his resurrection and spent forty days with his disciples. If they cannot establish the legitimacy of the church, how can they expect anyone to follow the dictates of its founders, who are men?

To say that either the Jehovah's Witnesses are the true faith or that God doesn't exist is a substantial non-sequitur. I would think the universe being ruled by cows is still a few rungs up from blowing off one's head. If your parents say that their faith is the true path, then let them explain to you why that is. Jesus never taught the shunning of anyone was of him. He never did it to sinners, so why should your parents or any other Christian?

Get a good King James Version and throw away the NWT.

16

Using violence to end violence?

by stuckinarut2 in

it really is mind blowing when we think about it : witnesses have no problem with a deity who will use violence in order to end violence?!?!.

armageddon will be gods war to kill billions of people...because it shows his love?.

thoughts?.

Cold Steel

According to Jewish and most Christian eschatology, Armageddon happens when nations that are now Muslim march against Israel and, specifically, Jerusalem in the last days. Muslim eschatology calls for the eventual destruction of Jerusalem and the Jews, and each side of this contest believes it will be serving God.

Christian eschatology explains that when Jesus descends upon the Mount of Olives that the Antichrist forces from the north will actually attack the coming Messiah. At that point, Jesus will, with a single utterance, destroy the opposing forces with fire.

In that sense, Jesus will be responding with violence against violence. Why? Probably because the enemy will continue its onslaught if he doesn't stop it.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives....
Zechariah 12

And:

21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
Ezekiel 39

Fire and glory can mean the same thing and in this sense seems to. When the Muslim nations attack Israel, they believe they will be in the right, and they will assume any power coming to save the Jews will be the Dejjal, the Muslim Antichrist, and they will do everything they can to prevent his intervention.

11

Tattoos In the Kingdom?

by Cold Steel in

with tattoos becoming ever more popular in today's culture, i couldn't help but wonder what happens when people with ostentatious tattoos seek baptism?

are they admitted?

many don't have the money to have them removed, yet i can't imagine they'd be allowed to do pioneer work.

Cold Steel

I can imagine a former gang member would be a great elder. He would be forthright without getting in your face or being trite. Because of his background he'd be more understanding and probably more apt to actually help people than to glory in his appointment. And many of them value loyalty, so I'm not surprised he worked out okay.

11

Tattoos In the Kingdom?

by Cold Steel in

with tattoos becoming ever more popular in today's culture, i couldn't help but wonder what happens when people with ostentatious tattoos seek baptism?

are they admitted?

many don't have the money to have them removed, yet i can't imagine they'd be allowed to do pioneer work.

Cold Steel

I was thinking more heavily tattooed. The kind where if they knocked on a door, the resident would think they were being set up. I'm talking of tattoos that run up the neck. Some tattoos mean things, like a tear from the corner of one eye. Someone answering a door might be reasonably spooked by some tattoos. At what point does the WTBTS hit the skids on who represents them? (I normally am pretty good at talking to missionaries of various stripes, but if someone showed up in a suit with greased down hair and flames running up his neck, I'd be a bit less likely to have anything to do with him.

23

Headed to vegas! Anything i should do?

by _Morpheus in

jw
friends

the tittle is self explanitory.... first trip to vegas, anything i should do besides gamble?.

Cold Steel

Anyone remember the STAR TREK:TNG ride? You had to wait in a long life (during which you were challenged to duels with Klingons and various interactions with other aliens). Once in, you were beamed to the Enterprise to meet with Captain Picard personally. Just as you were led on the bridge, however, you'd feel a jolt under you and then the red alert would sound. The lights would flash as the computer voice informed the bridge crew that the captain had just been beamed off the bridge and that the ship was under attack. Another jolt, confusion.

As guests they ushered you of the bridge and everyone eventually found their way into an escape ship. Lots of flashes of light and jolts, but you broke away from the Enterprise and headed back to the surface. Alas, the enemy now began to attack the escape craft. Fortunately the Enterprise was able to save us by placing itself between us and the enemy. We broke into the atmosphere, flew over Las Vegas and ended up on the top of a building. As we exited, a maintenance worker have us curious looks and we filed into the gift shop area. I bought two Deep Space Nine uniforms for a friend who wanted me to bring them for him and his wife (both fans).

There was also a 3D Atlantis exhibit with mist and polarized glasses that was cool and a place you could do a virtual free fall parachute jump. Didn't do that one, though.

32

If Jesus had to choose his earthly organisation NOW, who would win?

by stuckinarut2 in

we all know that the society claims that jesus invisibly chose the bible students (forerunners of jw) in 1919 to be his organization here on earth.. yet, as we know, so much of what they then taught and did was wrong according to current teaching and practice.. the reply witnesses will give is something like "they were the most sincere seekers of truth blah blah...and jesus could see their potential".

so, pretend for a moment that the current organization and the 1919 organization were both in concurrent existence at the time he invisibly came to choose.... which would he choose?

the current or former?.

Cold Steel

Doubting Bro » Are you saying the Catholic Church is Jesus organization? Seriously? I can't think of an organization with a worse history.

Nope. Didn't say that at all. I'm saying that Jesus didn't have much luck with existing religious movements of his day. So he created his own. I also don't believe it lasted. As prophesied, it failed, the apostles were killed, the keys were lost and the church passed from God to the political authorities in Rome. And once lost, the keys could only be restored by Jesus Christ (Acts 3:18-21).

Plus, Jesus didn't put all that organizational structure in place. Paul did. Now, you may believe Paul was acting under Jesus instructions but that's difficult to prove. If Jesus wanted all that structure in place, why didn't he do it?

I'm not sure how you arrived at this conclusion seeing that Peter was the senior apostle and held the keys of sealing power in Heaven and on Earth. Jesus was the one who established his church. He created the quorum of the Twelve and the Seventy (which also was had under Moses), and when the gospel was opened to the Gentiles, the revelation came not to Paul but to Peter.

There are many questions the Bible doesn't answer and we should be careful not to make assumptions when we hit gaps. The church was Christ's and it was of great importance to the ancients and was said to pre-date even the creation of the earth. It was not created by man, then "chosen" by God, but just the opposite. It was created by God, then chosen by those who sought His will.

Reading the Gospel accounts, Jesus pointed out time and time again how power (religious or otherwise) corrupts and that following an organization was not the way. Didn't he say "I am the way".

This is close to the "birthday" logic of the JWs. Structural organizations can be corrupted so they must all be wrong. But as we've seen, the early church was a structural organization. Moses had a brilliant structural organization in which the priesthood was used to minister to the needs of men. So the church was the link between Man and God as the ancient Christians saw it. But it couldn't be led without revelation, as the current JWs claim, else the blind would lead the blind and both leader and follower would fall into the pit.